Can’t hurt to get a quote, but make sure you say the weight\dimensions super clearly, its bigger\heavier than most stuff a tow truck handles regularly.
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Dimensions, 1.6M x 2.3M x 2.8M, 4.8 metric tonne, with a high centre of gravity, as well as a transformer that ways a few hundred kgs. Dads feeling is that you would be better hiring a crew that are used to dealing with moving these types of machines, even if it costs a little more, because you can fix the electrical, but if it gets damaged physically then you’re in a world of hurt as far as $$$ goes. He said Webster’s, with at least a 6 tonne Franna is his preferred option. Obviously, its the Hackerspaces call, needs voting on etc. etc.
He does have machine scates you can borrow.
The issue is cost… getting a paid team rather than using your own labor adds massive cost. As to if thats worth it or not, thats going to depend on what the other options are, so we may as well get a bunch of quotes, if nothing else its people that we have on record for the future should anything else need doing.
Something I have been thinking about though, if we can work on the site of the machine for a full day, we could buy a 20 foot high cube container frame to install the machine and all controls, circuit boxes ect into it. This would mean that we could pick it up with any regular container handling service, of which there are literally thousands and very low cost due to the lack of either a crane, or anyone but the truck driver. Even if it costs a little more this time, it will save us heaps of time, risk and money moving the device in future.
There is no way to move the machine into a container at Dad’s place. It’s not on a flat commercial property, it’s on a block of land, with a flat concrete ramp extending out from the house that he had poured to allow him to drop the machines onto and skate them inside. Also edit, I just looked, a 20 foot container is 8’ tall, the machine /won’t/ fit into that, and taking it apart is not an option.
I get that money is tight, by all means explore other avenues aside from the professional movers, I’m just making sure that when you do, you don’t rock up with a truck who’s tray or crane isn’t rated to the right weight, that can’t handle something with a high centre of gravity driving, who’s physical dimensions won’t take the machine, or that has no way of properly securing the load, with an operator that is careless.
I’m not being discouraging, don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t have suggested it if I didn’t think there was a way the Hackerspace could make it happen if you as a group are interested, I’m just making sure that you’re realistic about freighting a machine like this.
Just to clarify, my idea was to slide a container frame (not a enclosed container) over the machine in its current location, (down the corridor that the machine was loaded from the first time) then lift the machine just enough to weld a floor (with adequate support\mounting) in place. I suggest this because as long as the site is wide enough to push a 2.1m container in, and has at least 300-400mm more height than the machine, it’ll work. My concern is definitely “are we allowed to work there” instead of “may it be possible to”, because while its huge for HSBNE, its a very small object for industrial kit.
Once in the container frame the complete assemble will just be rolled out (containers move easy over scaffold tube bars) far enough a truck can load it… so a rear “site” loading style truck would certainly be advantagous as it would allow the truck to sit in the same >2.1m access corridor to the machine (in this case the ramp) with no additional space needed to either side.
Also I see your edit, this is why I specified a high cube, an interesting note is containers height isn’t actually standardized by the regulating body so any extension is possible, but there is one common size (8 foot) that makes up a large volume of shipments for general cargo, a 1/3rd height common for weight limited items\munitions and a “high cube” (2,900mm overall, remember frame not container so its not an “internal” measure) that are all extremely common., we use these all the time for moving vehicles\saw equipment so yes, the height will fit.
Also given that a started 20 foot is allowed to be up to ~25ton inc the container itself (30ton with the “high load” system), its exactly your concerns over handling loads that I hope to address with such a system, as all things considered this is a small\light load for standardized TU goods, it also allows us to protect during shipping are massively cheaper to boot.
Hey HSBNE,
Would you like to purchase a 3 axis CNC mill for, at very worst case scenario $600, shipped to your door?
If the answer to that question is anything other than a resounding yes, you’ve got rocks in your head. Theres ways we can do this cheaper maybe, but when its already so cheap it’s splitting hairs. $550 was a quick first estimate from websters, and thats without it being a backload or them slotting it in when they can or shit like that. And thats a truck, driven by people who do this for a living, rocking up a whisking it away, instead of dicking @caffeine_addict’s dad around with us putzing about in his back yard/place of business, jerry rigging stuff to save ourselves a couple hundred bucks. Its a bit silly.
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I vote very yes. Another source of funding could be the metal work cause? Otherwise I’d be willing to chip in to get this beast to the space.
Put it in next meetings adjenda, I’ll be there to put my vote in!
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All my yeses and then some more.
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How far from ‘working’ is this thing?
Do we sit it somewhere, give it power and our existing mill tooling and hit go?
What about software support?
What about maintenance, what things tend to break on these?
What are the operation risks?
Whats the ongoing cost of operation?
Whats the cost of tooling?
I’m keen its just that I feel like the space is currently populated with lots of expensive, non working or non usable tools.
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The original eBay listing lists it as ‘used … fully operational and functions as intended’, from what I’ve gathered from the above posts, it does use our exisiting tooling.
[quote]What about software support?
[/quote]
Given the number of other CNC projects at the space, this should be trivial
[quote]What about maintenance, what things tend to break on these?
What are the operation risks?
Whats the ongoing cost of operation?
Whats the cost of tooling?[/quote]
At a guess I would say no more than our current mill.
Just to clarify, I want this thing in principle, but I want to make sure we do due diligence and have it usable.
Well yeah, but once we move it things will change. Do we have the right power infrastructure is like question one. Hell, do we have a piece of concrete that it can sit on? (You might scoff but its a reasonable question). Do we have a place it can go, I mean how big is it, are we going to sacrifice a huge amount of space to a tool that is only useful to 10% of members?
How many of these are currently running? Maybe sven ones little one at best? And sven two’s big one is just starting to move I guess. We have a terrible history at keeping anything cnc based in operational condition. See: any 3d printer, the laser cutter, any cnc machine in the space.
Software seems to be the big sticking point, these things sit at the space totally impenetrable to induction, let alone usage.
Can’t vote based on guesses, sorry. Reasonable estimates, sure.
@devians here you go:
It is working.
Yes.
Mach 3.
Mainly endmills if you don’t know what you’re doing. Aka feeds and speeds.
Otherwise they are rock solid machines designed to run all day every day.
Lower then the existing mill.
Really low, electricity and coolant fluid every now and then.
Depends on the tools you buy for it. Can be low or outrages. But that is up to the member to supply tools.
@rut4ger got all that sorted.
2 are running. The little one of Lionel, the one I made. The one @Sven2 made will be running soon. He had exams. Give it 2 weeks. That then is all the machines up and running that we currently own.
No, the sticking point is people don’t seem keen to learn as far as I experienced. These machines are not “Press a button and go things”
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While I don’t want to get involved in a landwar in the forums(or asia for that matter), honestly none of the questions raised so far are big concerns other than shipping, which is just a case of getting quotes, then running votes.
Personally, I’d like to see a plan of attack for getting it:
- delivered
- installed
- tooled
- And finally available for use and induction.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m looking forward to having a great machine here like this but I want to make sure we do it right.
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Delivered: Theres been a few ideas, but basically if we pay, it moves.
Installed: Should be possible to finish on the day of delivery, its mostly just sorting power.
Tooled: This isn’t really a thing, tools are consumable and each job requires its own. Thus other than the basic stuff (which we already have for the other mill) users should supply their own.
That basically covers setup, although personally I’d like to see people with lots of experience get a few full jobs done before letting anyone use it (thus notice any noises ect that may indicate an issue). As for inductions, its basically the same stuff as the existing mill, so its something we should already be sorting regardless of if we even get this mill or not. Having said that, unlike 3d printers most of our members don’t own a mill at home, so its perhaps not surprising we don’t have a huge line of people who want to go through the entire learning process and don’t have basic experience, although I do realize thats not an excuse for not having a system.
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Well, @nogthree I will address all your points too.
There is people working on that. Give them some time. They will come up with something. Or, maybe you want to contact some companies and put the quotes up here?
I’m repeating myself, @rut4ger is on that.
This will be growing over time. As I said above the tools can be VERY expensive. This machine holds !20! at one time. But we got enough to get us started.
@caffeine_addict offered to train people up.
If all of us would use the time spend arguing here instead of getting the above points sorted we would have it together in no time.
Can we please do that?
To reiterate everyone before,
I would love to see this tool but someone needs to stand up and make a plan.
And a plan doesn’t include just answering these and anyone else questions, think of everything that needs to be done bringing the equipment to site and get it operational.
Add a time frame. Doesn’t need to be dated, but something with a estimate on days from the delivery date.
eg
day 1 - determine if current controller board is sufficient to run Mach3
day 2 - wire unit into mains and install access control
Here is a few more questions that need answering
What is the Size?
How much area around the machine do we need for it to be usable by human (Including pc)?
Where is it going to be installed?
What is the power requirements 1-phase / 3-phase?
Do we need to install a powerpoint so we don’t have a extension cord running across the floor?
What is the basic tooling to get it working?
Do we have the required tools on hand?
What is the best way to lock this tool within the current swipe system?
Does it need a PC?
If so where is that being sourced from?
Finally, the plan should be posted online at least 3 days BEFORE the vote to spend money on it to allow feedback.
Thanks for clarifying Luke, that’s pretty much what I was asking for.
I’m not being anal about this, I just want to see a plan of attack for getting it all done and in place.
If we ask all the questions (there is nothing wrong with fresh eyes) and plan it out ahead of time there won’t be as many ‘well shit’ or “She’ll be right” moments come time to do it.
I’m excited to see this in place and in use, I’m not excited to see it half assed or fucked up because we rushed it.
Edit: By plan of attack I mean provide one when we’re voting not right nwow when we’re all too excitable about it 
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Here is a few more questions that need answering
What is the Size?
I already gave you the dimensions and weight.
How much area around the machine do we need for it to be usable by human (Including pc)?
Probably about half a metre
Where is it going to be installed?
@rut4ger is working on that, and will keep us informed.
What is the power requirements 1-phase / 3-phase?
3-phase, its an industrial machine.
Do we need to install a powerpoint so we don’t have a extension cord running across the floor?
Depends where it goes, and if there is 3 phase where you put it, see what Karl comes up with as far as a home.
What is the basic tooling to get it working?
I was told by Sven and Karl that your existing mill uses BT40 shank tools, if this is correct, then from what I’ve seen you have enough there to get you started. If the mill takes CT40 instead, then you a basic selection of holders will need to be purchased, second hand on eBay between $25-$100 a piece. I will personally check out your current tooling next time I’m in and give you a better answer.
Do we have the required tools on hand?
See above.
What is the best way to lock this tool within the current swipe system?
Someone with more knowledge then me needs to answer this, the same way you’d lock any 3-phase machine.
Does it need a PC?
Yes, it needs a dedicated PC (very, very, low spec) in order to DNC the code. On that note, software is not an issue, as part of its move and setup I will make sure it is calibrated and running.
If so where is that being sourced from?
I heard you were getting a crap ton of old laptops donated? You just need USB to Serial.
Also, as to the question of how far is it working, I also answered that, but will again for you. It is fully functional, except for the manual jog wheel. This leaves to ways to move the machine without the computer, the use of a jog/feed button (not as accurate), or through MDI on the control panel (takes more time, is more accurate). The wheel itself is an electronic fix, I don’t have the details on me about what is required, but I don’t believe it is terrible expensive of we want that capability re-added to the machine.
It had a lot of its components serviced fairly recently in the scheme of these machines, providing you don’t hire some moron who drops it, then there is no reason why it shouldn’t just plug in and go, and go for a good while.
As far as operation of the machine goes, it is a big, dangerous machine, that is more than capable of killing or maiming you, with no built in interlocks. But sven2’s machine could also hurt a lot, so could the laser cutters, etc.
I told Karl and Sven that I want it interlocked during its initial setup process, not months down the track. And that I am happy to train up people in its safe use.
In case anyone missed it, I am a CNC machinist by trade, and this machine was what I learnt on when I was 15, my first lines of G Code drove this exact machine.
This is not a diy machine like your other “CNC” projects, it is a professionally designed and manufactured industrial machine. That being said, you can break it if you are careless. The motors don’t care where you tell them to go, so if some idiot hurtles the machine with tooling at full speed straight into you vice or other fixture, it is going to make a very loud, very expensive noise. Which again, is why I will be happy to provide training, insist it has interlocks, and will make myself available over phone to anyone who has been inducted if they have problems.
I will leave making a plan up to Karl.
I am happy to answer any questions, but only if people read the original link I provided, and my previous posts to see if that question has already been answered.
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Thanks, I do acknowledge some of the questions I posted have been answered before.
Though I was mearly trying pointing out a document needs to be compiled before its vote worthy in my eyes.
Another point worth considering.
Exit clause.
When we eventually get kicked out of our current premises, we are going to need to pay for its removal/relocation.
As such we are really voting for twice the amount of the cost to get it here.