I’ve had a chat with a few people and most seem to agree this idea is pretty salient, so lets discuss it on the forum.
Theres talk about having some kind of cover between the containers, because it makes the area between them super useful. The question is how to build it. I would propose that we build truss beams out of 25mm SHS (or potentially 30mm). Specifically something like a warren truss:
A really rough guesstimate says 1 truss would take 3 lengths of steel, at $31 a length from scottmetals thats ~$90 a truss. I think you’d probably need 3-4 truss’ per container gap, so lets guess around $350ish each.
We cannot drill into the containers, so I think the current idea is to weld brackets to them that we can later grind off, and bolt to the brackets.
So lets say each span can be roofed for <$500 each. You mount the whole thing at a slight angle so rain pours off in the right direction. If we want walls (not a bad idea) we can knock them together with this stuff: https://www.bunnings.com.au/3600-x-900-x-19mm-green-tongue-particle-board-flooring_p0460014 or alternatively more roofing materials if we have enough.
I’m advocating steel due to strength, ease of assembly and the fact we can build a fairly low profile roof which is apparently helpful re the landlord, rather than a big a frame out of pine or similar. It’s also not too cost prohibitive. We could maybe go cheaper doing it in framing pine but I’m not too convinced on that?
If we do this, we can make one space appropriate for the blacksmiths and perhaps also for kilns/ovens and other similar large ‘hot work’ items. Another space could be allocated for large project member storage as well as storage of materials like steel and plywood in a weatherproof area that frees up our main work areas more. Lots of options, up for discussion etc.
Finally, if we did this, its entirely plausible we could put an awning over the space between the containers and the wood shop again, which might make that area useful as well.
As I mentioned last time we discussed this, this is well thought out but doesn’t appear to cover what I communicated the Blacksmithing cause’s requirements for their roof as I understood them to be.
The Blacksmithing cause require one end of the roof that covers their area to be open (the end closest to the boneyard) to allow for ventilation of the forges. Pinging @Wixted for commentary.
Additionally, I’ve done some research since we spoke about the BCC building code and these structures would run foul of it fairly quickly and require a licensed building certifier AND a licensed draftsperson or architect.
Specifically where we’d run foul of the BCC building code is:
is no more than 10 square metres in area (It’s at least 25sqm)
is no longer than 5 metres to any side (it’s 6m per span)
According to the interactive map for BCC’s 2014 plan at http://cityplan2014maps.brisbane.qld.gov.au/CityPlan/ we’re affected by a couple of overlays that mean we will need planning approval from BCC. (302 on SP257483)
I don’t think what I’ve proposed precludes that at all?
Honestly all that stuff is beyond my interest, if someone wants to figure all that out, cool. I’m just proposing a method to solve the problem and perhaps push that whole thing towards being useful.
I’d also like to note that most of what nog has brought up
applies to residential properties and shed construction on a residential
site. HSBNE is neither a residential site nor are we building a
shed…it’s not even entirely a “car port” under the rules…although
that is closer… It’s probably best described as a Temporary Car Port.
I don’t have the answers for how it should be
approved…but since it’s actually the landlords problem to ensure
regulatory compliance… i propose we go ahead with whatever plan we
generally like…and write it up… then send it to Wendy for her and
her team to validate.
ok, so this is going to be a long post, address everything I can.
at the scale we are talking, this is over-engineered and expensive. recycled hardwood beams will have sufficient strength. even if we decide steel beams are more suitable/cheaper than hardwood, at such a short distance trusses are complete over kill, where increasing the beam diameter is cheaper, simpler and just as effective.
we have already approx 5 full length sheets of roofing iron, and several more shorter lengths, on site.
at this scale we would definitely need building and planning approval since you’re basically constructing an adhoc shed the size of the current metalwork and woodwork building and -
I have been thinking on this , and have a potential solution, since as nog pointed out: [quote=“nogthree, post:2, topic:1595”]
The Blacksmithing cause require one end of the roof that covers their area to be open (the end closest to the boneyard) to allow for ventilation of the forges.
[/quote]
My solution is to basically have two awnings between the bonyard and centre containers. both awnings would be either 2.5m x 4m or 2m x 5m, leaving either a 1m or 2m wide gap between the two for ventilation. These two awnings would be two separate “sheds” and fit the requirements for self assessment etc. Each awning would be backed on one side by a container, leaving the opening in the centre.
It is useful though if we can figure out what regulations apply to us first, which then allows us to design within those, before approaching the LL and merely requiring them to tick off on everything. makes things move quicker all around, rather than relying on them to do all the work
Sure, do you have a price on this? I provided costings for my proposal.
An alternative to truss’s would be to go to a higher size beam, yes, but i think you’ll not get the rigidity you’d necessarily want with single beams.
Cool, just means we need to buy less.
We always need this, its a given. As buzz said, we come up with something, propose it to the landlord and they have their input and yay/nay it. Not sure why everyones stressing out so much on it.
You could achieve the same thing in my idea by just not having sheeting in the center for the blacksmithing area, and doesnt require cantilevering or anything like that. Keep in mind we have 2 areas to work with, not just blacksmithing.[quote=“wixted, post:5, topic:1595”]
It is useful though if we can figure out what regulations apply to us first, which then allows us to design within those, before approaching the LL and merely requiring them to tick off on everything. makes things move quicker all around, rather than relying on them to do all the work
[/quote]
Very valid points, but honestly they’re there to help us as well and if we can agree on a plan and propose it to them thats a good first step.
Figured I should clarify this, I’m talking about any sort of small beam, of course if you have big 2x10 hardwood beams it would be fine, but also very expensive.
Why not just buy some steel canary wire and string it between the 3 containers every say 400 mm and put good quality tarps, shade sales or canvas. I know someone that loves sewing canvas that would help.
Post the size of the containers and the gap between and I can work out a price for you
I think the issue will be making sure that whatever is used to cover the space doesnt turn into a big sail and go the way of the drive in screen come the next big storm. The impression I have gotten about the landlord is that the space would best coming up with a complete engineered and funded solution and presenting it to the landlord for approval and assistance in getting it through planning. Just building a structure could get other tennants noses out of joint…
I’m still talking with @Wixted to nail down a good design, but it occurred to me today another alternative for this build is these:
Which would be about $300 for 4 6m spans between each set of container, slightly cheaper. Not sure how it would weather compared to steel.
I also found this awesome gumtree ad for roofing:
which seems like a great option for us to cheaply get the roofing sheets all sorted.
In terms of next steps, I think the interested parties need to agree on a design of some kind and we need to price and propose it to the landlord, if the landlord is ok with it we can then go to membership with a budget.
AFAIK its really only me and @Wixted with any sort of vested interest in the area?
I’d also like to note that most of what nog has brought up applies to
residential properties and shed construction on a residential site. HSBNE
is neither a residential site nor are we building a shed…it’s not even
entirely a “car port” under the rules…although that is closer… It’s
probably best described as a Temporary Car Port.
I don’t have the answers for how it should be approved…but since it’s
actually the landlords problem to ensure regulatory compliance… i propose
we go ahead with whatever plan we generally like…and write it up… then
send it to Wendy for her and her team to validate.
