Digifab Meeting 19/06/2018

Time: 8:30 pm
Date 19/06/2018

Anycubic Photon + supplies budget $1000
Update on Nogs discussion from Laser Cutter Inductions

please add anything you think we might need

I like the idea of getting resin printer.

Re last cutter… There are people asking to use it every week when I am there on Tuesday. There is some one there who is experienced in using the last cutter but can’t nectar he is not indicted.
Please advise.

@Hals If people are keen to use the laser cutter they currently need to be directed to the wiki page which lists the machine supervisors. The machine supervisors currently provide supervision of the machine provided you actually contact them to organise it.

As mentioned in my other thread the way this is handled will be changing in the near future (likely after this meeting), with the supervisors being able to ‘induct’ people who can then use the machine provided they perform some pre and post use checklists and use the machine safely and appropriately.

Im definitely pro, to change it.
I always feel bad when i have to bother others, if i want to laser cut some parts for my planes as i know it can take up to 4h to cut :frowning:

The cutter was completely busted for a couple of years before the current system was introduced, and it has been continuously operational for over two years since. It might seem that you’re annoying a maintainer by asking them to run a trivial job, but it’s far more aggravating for that maintainer to spend a huge amount of time every week having to fix the laser cutter because yet another person mistreated it (or was just ill-equipped to handle an emergency situation, which happens regularly.)

if someone inducted mistreats it, you remove their access.

Induction materials are designed to equip people for an emergency situation. that’s the point of them.

I don’t see either of these arguments as valid reasons to keep the system as it is.

Edit: @pelrun

As above, the system is changing and at the last cause meeting the cause members voted to accept my suggested changes to the system

I believe Aaron will be talking about that at the cause meeting to explain the changes and how/when they’ll come in.

sorry, was directed at @pelrun

Induction materials are designed to equip people for an emergency situation. that’s the point of them.

That depends entirely on what the equipment is. Is it something robust that doesn’t need much knowledge to keep working and has little risk of damage to itself or the user? Is it something robust that won’t itself break but will readily rip a careless users arm off? Or is it something fragile and expensive to repair (in both money and skilled labour costs) that will spontaneously fail even if the user does everything right?

You do not treat all of those cases identically. The “induction materials” for previously becoming a maintainer of the laser cutter involved actually volunteering to work on various un-sexy repair and building tasks (like helping to bring the other laser cutters online) and yet the people who were screaming loudest about not being allowed to use the machine unsupervised explicitly refused to do any of that.

People complain about the current system, but it did work, and lots of people got lots of cutting done. Just realise that the current group of people with the knowledge to keep the cutter running no longer have the time or energy to bring it back up once it’s dead, and all it will take is one person who doesn’t give a shit to get through the induction process to wreck it for everyone. Removing their access after they already killed it isn’t going to magically fix it.

I’m in two minds about this, both as somebody who is currently a laser cutter supervisor and also somebody who was frustrated in being unable to use it for a long time.

The best way I can see forward is this:

*there is a set ‘learning progression’ which everybody has to follow, requiring proving competency and willingness to contribute to the maintenance of the machine over an extended period of time before access is granted.

*there are tough penalties for anybody who fails to use the machine properly (which doesn’t really fit into our current ding/penalty system).

Not saying everybody should have to do what I did, but when I was trying to get supervisor access I spent almost 18 months maintaining other similar equipment/observing supervisors using the laser/doing absolutely everything I can to help with maintenance (cleaning Digifab, cleaning the laser cutter itself, helping ensure the ancillaries were in good condition, etc) until I became a supervisor. I would suggest that anybody who wants supervisor access start by showing willingness to help out in other areas of the Cause, and not just demanding that people either drop everything they are doing to help them, or to immediately give them supervisor access (as has personally happened to me on multiple occasions)

As for part 2, I think proper usage of the laser cutter is often underappreciated, as unlike much of the other equipment we have it is fairly easy to cause issues to the laser cutter with improper usage, and it is less likely to cause personal injury if you do something wrong. As such, I am writing up a modified framework of our current ‘punishment’ schedule, as tool usage is something we can more effectively restrict for those who can’t follow the rules now there are interlocks on a lot of the dangerous/high learning curve equipment.

@Drew_Spriggs you are on the money with my current view of how to become a supervisor - help the cause via cleaning the cause area once and a while, help people with the 3D printers, overall show that you give a shit about the space and not that you just want to use and never give back,

Yes it did take me quite awhile to allow drew to become a supervisor. But Drew proved himself and I trust that if he fucks up or breaks something he is going to tell someone right away, or advise me if there is something wrong, he will also go out of his way to fix the issue and if it is a learning issue will learn from it and pass on info to other supervisors to decrease issues happening.

so far some people that are looking to use the laser cutter have not reported back to me and advised that they may have crashed the head of the laser cutter (didn’t think it was a big deal), or that they failed to clean the machine after a current supervisor have helped them to do a cut. As many people have helped fix the machine when it was screwed in the past, You might be able to understand that they are not wanting people to come around and fuck the machine up.

This is not directed at anyone, but we have had people come in the past that said " move out of the way i know how to use this I did it for a job in the past", and they have fucked the machine and people have had to come in an fix it because they didn’t know how to use our machine.

All tools are different around the space, the laser cutter is a great example of this, It does not use a normal controller board, It is using a smoothie-board, not the many laser cutter use that kinda thing, We have had to make mods to it, to make sure we are being as safe as we can be.

People don’t understand just leaning on the laser cutter will sometimes screw it up, when we first got the machine people were cleaning the lens with their shirts, this is what happens when we have people that don’t understand what they are doing and break shit,

I am happy to talk about the laser cutter at the cause meeting or after the cause meeting if you want, Because I don’t want to waste peoples time going over talking bit we have already spoken of.

@crofty, had a look at the resin printer, it’s on sale for a little under $800 at the moment for the next three days (as of Saturday 16th) so if we can take advantage of this price I’m all for it.

Digifab Cause Meeting 19/06/2018

Luke Hovington
Ian Haly
Aaron Bycroft
Lucas Oldfield
Jaimyn Mayer
Ian Redmond
Mike Ando
Brendan Halliday
Michael King
James Churchill
David Buzz

Meeting Opened 20:20

$1000 budget for Photon printer and some materials. All in favour, none abstaining.

Laser cutter training document approved, to be posted to wiki and forums. All in favour, none abstaining.

Meeting Closed 20:40

And here’s the laser cutter training document that was circulated at the meeting, for the cause members to read.

Draft_ Laser Cutter Training.pdf (182.1 KB)

Supervisors will soon be able to use this to train and approve members for unsupervised use.

Out of interest, was the Photon ever purchased?