If everyone who has not been cleaning up after themselves actually starts to clean their own plates etc. then opening the area up could be an option. The next question is, will the cleaning up happen since it hasn’t been happening so far?
Will it eventually get to a stage where every member will have a plate/bowl/cup with their name on it and they keep it in their own members box? Then if its used and dirty, you know who it belongs to.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to say people won’t, it hasn’t in the past and in general, even if the system is working perfectly there is going to be stuff there being cleaned. The front entrance isn’t the place for that when there are other decent places for it. In what other organisation would you enter the building via the kitchen?
Via the kitchen (physically walking through the kitchen) no, but past the kitchen which is the case here then yes.
If we were to turn it into a hangout common room then the kitchen aspect would diminish and become more welcoming IMO.
It would, I completely agree, if it were kept clean. Which in the past it has been demonstrated that it can’t. It happens in every little kitchen. Which is why I tend to think we should just circumvent the issue and move the kitchen to somewhere more suitable.
The most complex processes anyone is going to go through are making noodles or microwaving something, that’s all anyone does as far as I can see in the current kitchen. These could all be performed in any place you can rest a microwave and a kettle. I’d really like to hear from anyone who regularly prepares food at the space, and the facilities they use to do so. There is ample room to make provisions so that everyone is catered to for all situations. I just don’t see anyone really needing anything more complex than what was listed above.
I really would like to hear everyone’s input on this project, positive or negative. I don’t want to just do whatever I feel is a good idea as it is a large part of the communal space. This is one spot where a do-ocracy doesn’t really apply. I’m going to do something in the coming months to make the space more welcoming and I want that something to be agreeable to as large of a chunk of the membership as possible. The sooner you speak up with your input the sooner it can be taken into account.
Firstly, brav-fuckin-o. I’m dead keen to see this area of the space cleaned up.
Secondly, I will help in any way I can (although I’m away for a month on monday).
I’ve been thinking about what I’d like to see done to that area for a while. I’d like to see:
Some caveats:
What I absolutely DO NOT want to see:
For the record, I’m not really keen on the sink in the laser room becoming the kitchen. Mainly because I don’t want food or food prep in there. I’d support cannibalising that bench setup for parts (water filter, benchtop etc), because it would free up useful space in that room and that sink is semi useless due to lack of drainage.
The exec and some core members lately have been talking about plans for space usage, and we’re currently working with the landlord to figure out 3 phase in the middle building, and turning the ‘kitchen’ room into an semi-clean arts room. Think screen printing, clay, the kiln, painting etc. So lets not talk too much about using that for cooking because frankly its just not a good idea.
I’ll also remind everyone that a while back, the membership voted to allow the exec to spend $30 per member to issue them with a welcome kit. Part of that will be to issue members with a plastic eating set with their name engraved. That way we can identify and make people accountable for mess. We would obv get rid of existing eating gear. We looked into disposable stuff but its expensive and an ongoing maintenance issue. So thats certainly on the books once we’re fiscally a bit more sound (ie not broke) and should really help out with the mess issue.
I think the ideas around paint, and open shelving etc are all fantastic. If we can make some better area for posting information about the space (ie the gaggle of whiteboards throughout the space) I’m keen for that also, because thats important. Maybe the games room big windows could be frosted and lit and used as nice boards? that would be cool.
But yeah. Karl, I’d love to twist your ear sometime (probably over something like skype, since I’m travelling) to have a chat about this, because I’m passionate and I’d be neck deep in it if I weren’t out of town.
I think its definitely time to step back up with the renovation gusto, and I think Karl is a very capable person. While you’re all scheming that, perhaps some quick wins could travel their way into the classroom also? wink wink Sanding/paint on the ‘projector wall’, mounting that green screen properly, and fixing up my wall bogging abortion would go a long way.
Last thought before I go, since I’m brain dumping, if we end up with or find around the space and surplus sinks due to this or whatever, please save them. We have all the plumbing and parts to put them into the warehouse which will be super useful.
If you’re around saturday or sunday I can come over to the space, otherwise I’m happy to skype you another time.
Maybe if the kitchenette wasn’t moved from that area we could make something like this?
Could put the dishes and whatnot underneath the sink, and the kettle/toaster/whatever in the other little cupboard?
The intent in highlighting the ugliness of the couches is by no means to offend, as said they’re perfectly good couches, comfy and what not, they’re just ugly. They have served their purpose very well thus far, they could be used elsewhere in the space, it’s just time for them to not be where they are any more. This is speaking specifically about the brown ones, the other corner thing isn’t bad it’s just ripped and will probably still be useful.
Their will always be dirty dishes I have not been to the space without
seeing dirty dishes left out. I think we should donate all our dishes to
the individual members that want to use them and they can keep them in
their crates in the members storage. Then just chuck the rest of the plates
and dirty crap out. The only things we should keep are coffee cups, spoons
and glasses. Giving engraved plates in a welcome kit is a WTF silly idea
for me.
Knocking down the bench would be awesome and the reason why I didn’t do it
when we knocked all the other stuff down is it would have looked worse than
it does now for a long time. It also contains the mess to sum degree into
that area.
I think the vending machine should be moved next to the drinks machine and
a bench with a microwave put in its place. Painting the entryway and
kitchen would go a long way to making the place look better.
If we all agree on painting then that’s where we should start.
I’m wondering why epoxy paint is not worth it. It looks good, it’s durable, it stays reasonably vibrant even when covered in filth. I’m assuming cost is the downside, would that be correct?
NO CAPES! ahem. I’m pretty against cupboards. Literally tabletop with a sink in it would be fine in my opinion. If it were entirely up to me I’d just get some square steel stock and a piece of metal sheet and weld a basic metal indestructo-table.
All good, I just think its worth pointing out that most things we have because of someones kindness and the language we use is important 
You can see what I quoted up in that other thread, but I’m curious as to why in one breath you espouse the idea (lets throw away all the permanent stuff) and in the next criticise it? I mean, you said give dishes to individual members to keep in their storage, the single difference in between your suggestion and mine is that mine has accountability. So, I guess I’m asking you to please explain.
Painting should be done last. Isn’t that obvious? Thats like saying “I’m going to clean the house starting with the floor” 
Well, the green room was a couple of hundred dollars worth (donated). The prep to put it down was a huge, huge, huge many person job. Ripping up the carpet, getting all the glue off the floor with scrapers, jackhammering out concrete and angle grinding down rebar, patching up holes, grinding down raises. We had a guy with a huge big professional concrete grinder come in and do it for free to test his machine. Then many many days of painting. We honestly couldn’t have done it without the help of many many members and he-who-shant-be-named. And at the end of it all, the green room floor is pretty filthy, difficult to clean and the high traffic areas have had the sand taken out of them in wear and tear so they’re slick, and where the sand remains means we cant get proper floor cleaning machines over it. It’s not put down anywhere near thick enough, and people routinely drag metal over it and rip it up. Hell even crushing aluminium cans on it is damaging it quite visibly. It’s just a huge effort and not enough bang at the end.
Whats the exact plan with this engraving plates business?
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/gumdale/building-materials/50x-50-carpet-tiles/1049195486
They’re $2.50/m^2 and not that ugly.
The point is that as part of joining the hackerspace we issue you with some eating gear, which has your name engraved on it. It costs us a minimal amount, and it means if you use it and leave it lying around dirty, we can tell who did it and jump on their heads repeatedly. Normal plates/cutlery or whatever and disposable containers will just get binned.
Sure. Carpet thats in good nick (not our stuff thats knackered) would be fine. Or any sort of cheap laminate flooring. If it can survive people dragging shit all over it, its probably the go. Hell, if we could get it cheap enough I’d be fine with astroturf haha.
@devians
I like cupboards, they store stuff WITHOUT having crap all over the benches or having big black plastic bins full of stuff
sitting there that use all the bench space like we currently have. They also keep dust and partials from people 3d printing, soldering and cutting stuff up out of your items (especially needed for food prep stuff) and they are fairly space efficient as a means of storage.
All in all we need smarter storage, thus less randomly dumped stuff, not to remove current storage and have nowhere to put things but to randomly dump stuff. Examples of stuff inn this setting include the wok, mugs or the like for guests to use if they want a tea or coffee (may actually happen if the kitchen doesn’t look like you need your shots up to date to set foot in it), before mentioned tea and coffee tins and the countless other items normal people store in cupboards around there kitchen.
@rut4ger
A more compact kitchen unit sounds like a much better idea than a sink in a tabletop with legs. Only tweak I would suggest is that the kettle needs to have a permanent home on the bench-top where it can be used. I’d actually stick its base down with a couple of strips of double sided tape to stop it being moved accidentally (or pushed into a corner by osmosis from all the crap building up, as the current 2 kettles have been at HSBNE). Other than that we just need a sign that tell people where dirty (or even washed, but still wet) dishes will be put if they leave them on the prep area, otherwise we’ll end up with the same situation we have with the current draining rack to the left of the sink and with no bench space. Anyway I think this sounds like a very good idea since we can recover almost all the parts we need from the current kitchenette and the small kitchenette that’s next to the lazer cutter and doesn’t seem to have any purpose.
I’m not saying just have benchtops. I’m just saying have open shelving if you need to have something like that. As soon as you put a door on it, it becomes a cupboard and a shit collector.
You’re right, they do collect shit, but they also hide it well. Personally I’m not going to use it more than twice a year so I couldn’t give a shit how messy it gets, so long as its neat and contained.
@devians I guess I just sick of the mess to the point where I feel any effort put into maintaining a kitchen is pointless as it will become a mess within a week. I don’t think throwing out things people can use is a good thing to do so giving them to the members that want them is IMO a good course of action. I don’t think we should give plates and stuff in the welcome kit because that is not what HSBNE is about, we would be better of spending that money on a HSBNE laser cut keyring.
Painting is something we all agree on so its a good place to start. With cleaning you can start wherever you like you just need to finish with the floor. 
If someone started cleaning the floor at HSBNE and the benches had crap all over them I would not scold them for not cleaning the benches.
I agree that cupboards crap collectors but if someone is willing to build any infrastructure for us to use that is in their opinion what we need who am I to stop them.
@rut4ger Go for it. Remember their are termites in that area. So make it out of tasty wood
It’s great that you have an opinion, however the membership have already voted in this idea and discussing it further at this point is only derailing the thread. Each member having their own responsibility for their own mess (via tagged/engraved foodware) is a movement towards accountability I support, having come across and cleaned up people’s left up food multiple times.
Karl, I’m available all upcoming weekends, hit me up if you need some assistance with implementing any of this.
Perhaps instead of closed in cupboards in the kitchen how about open shelves so people can’t set and forget mess. Alternatively perspex doors.
I’m totally down with lazer cut (and engraved) clear doors. That shit will look cool, keep dust and toxic particles off the stuff and have people accountable for the mess somewhat, great Idea Nog!
So just to keep everyone updated, I found a red leather lounge last night, few holes but it’s pretty nice. I’ve got another grey lounge at my old house which Ill bring in. I found a bunch of usable solid timber and ply from pallets to make furniture, and have started collecting the parts for an awesome coffee table project using a gigantic gear and shaft from some kind of heavy machinery.
What I really need help with is finding some suitable flooring, I don’t really have any preference what it is. Nog suggested, not carpet, as carpet gets filthy, which I am inclined to agree with. It’s a highly trafficked area so maybe tiles or lino would be a better choice. Any suggestions?
Another update, I got just about all the timber I need for the timber wall last night, its all pulled apart and denailed now, Thankyou to everyone that lent a hand cracking up the pallets, very much appreciated. We have carpet for half the room, big thanks to Timeka for that one. And we have most of the paint we’re going to need for the other walls, Thanks Buzz for pointing out that paint.
